A few weeks ago, I was sitting in a presentation by a doctor who I believe is a dermatologist at one of the big hospitals in town. It was supposed to be a presentation about the importance of using proper skincare and sunscreen.
However, as the presentation went on, I felt very irked by what the good doctor was saying. In a long, trying half an hour presentation, he effectively slagged off the beauty routine of every woman sitting in the room. You didn’t need serums, he said. You don’t need to use more than 3 products and anything else is a waste of time and money. You won’t be able to keep up with your routine if you use more than 3 products – cleanser, moisturiser and sunscreen. If you spend more than 5 minutes doing your beauty routine, you are wasting your time.
Why, thanks doc. I regularly spend more than 5 minutes on my skincare routine and I use multiple products. I have been doing so for years and hardly slacked off.
I was very irritated. This was a presentation to a roomful of beauty editors from various press and he was saying all this? It wasn’t what he was saying but the way he was saying it, talking down to everyone in the room. I was so irritated, I left the minute it was over. The product being launched was lost to me. All I remember from that event is how irritated this doctor made me feel and how I was convinced I’d never ever want to consult with him. Ever. Interesting, because he was just going into private practice too.
Have you ever had a similar sort of experience? If not at a presentation, have you gone to see a doctor for a problem only to have them slag off your routine, or criticize or belittle you for the choices you make?
Thus far, I’ve seen 2 skin doctors. One was out of necessity as I was battling contact dermatitis on my hands due to an allergy to some organic skincare products. The doctor is a leading dermatologist in town and very popular especially for those who had acne and skin problems. When I went to see him, he was polite and listened to what I had to say, looked at the problem, prescribed some creams that healed my hands and I understood why he was so popular. I later had the opportunity to see him present at 2 product launches, and both times, he just gave facts about his subject and didn’t try to sound smart or funny. The take away was that he knew what he was talking about, and everyone respected that.
Another I met quite irritated me as he was opinionated. However, he listened and he didn’t slag off what I was doing. He just gave me options but left it to me to do what I wanted, if I wanted an alternate way of doing things.
In both these situations, I may not agree with what the doctor does but I will respect them because they don’t go around shooting their mouths off and being condescending.
In the case of the doctor I had the misfortune to listen to during the product presentation, well, lets just say that I have no respect for him at all. Slagging off another person’s routine to make your point, whether intentional or not is, to me unprofessional. There are ways to phrase things diplomatically and quite clearly, said doctor never figured that out.
Have you ever had the misfortune to meet a doctor who slags off your routine? Or if its outside of beauty, criticize you for what you do or belittles your problem even as they are supposed to treat it?
Health wise, I haven’t met a rude or nasty doctor yet *fingers crossed* but I do know that if I do, I will not hesitate to walk out, no matter how good they are, because I don’t believe in taking rude and condescending behaviour from anyone. You?
Paris B
Nothing irritates me more than doctors that don’t listen! It’s fine if they’re opinionated; they’re certainly experts in their field, but they can’t ignore what I say, because it’s my body and no one observes it more closely.
That’s absolutely correct and how I feel, Kuri. We’re all different so we may react differently and besides, they can be nice and not rude about putting their point forth!
I went to see an eye doctor once because my opthamologist told me I might go blind (ok, not as scary as that but that was my takeaway). The eye doctor, supposedly one of the best in kl, belittled my hairstyle and cut me off when I was trying to answer her questions 🙁
Uh, unless your hair was causing your eye problem, I don’t see what it had to do with the eye doctor! Man! Some doctors need to learn personal relations!
I once went to a Doc with my serious immune problems, endocrine problems and joint issues. She was a rheumatologist. She didn’t look at any of my tests, and all she did was look at ME, all over, stripped down, and then say “Have you always had such weird toes?”
So unprofessional!
Hey! I’ve been following ur blog as a silent reader but today I decided to post a comment :D. Well, I’ve been to a derm (in fact, the best derm in town) due to acne problem. And yes, she told me that the more crap we put on our face makes our skin worse. She even advised me to swear off make up completely if I want to stay acne-free forever. OH THE HORROR! The less I put on my face, the better. Over the counter serums and magic anti ageing creams do not work at all, she said. She told me not to waste money on those stuff, whether they are from drug stores or high end products, or even best-sellers! They just don’t work! And no facials, masks and scrubs. To my dismay of course. What will work is only what the doctor prescribed, because only those products contain active ingredients allowed by the FDA (or some organisation in charge of that). I find this hard to believe, but then again, she is A doctor and what makes her more credible is that she isn’t an ambassador of any products. Some part of me think that, ‘yay, i don’t have to blow my hard-earned money of beauty products that won’t work anyway’, but the other beauty junkie in me is like, ‘whaaat…i can’t brain this!’ So yeah, skin doctors have VERY different opinion than what our beauticians and beauty magazines tell us, which sucks. P/s: I’m acne free now :D. But I’m never going to swear off makeup, ever!
I just have to butt in to say — just because she’s a doctor doesn’t necessarily mean she’s on your (the patient’s) side! It’s really good to hear you’re acne free now (:D!), but your experience with the derm sounds a little… less transparent than it could have been; lets phrase it that way. 😛
Truth is, a lot of the products you get in department stores (and drugstores, to an increasing degree,) have FDA-approved actives in them — anything that uses AHAs and BHAs to exfoliate, for instance. Companies literally are not allowed to sell products containing actives without strict FDA (or similar) approval; in many cases, products which require a prescription aren’t entirely different, they’re just stronger. (And stronger doesn’t always = better!) It sucks, but the bottom line is that doctors are really strongly encouraged to write out prescriptions by the pharmaceutical industry, if not through “kickbacks” (read: bribes) then through “business” trips sponsored by drug companies. etc. A good doc will put the patient first, but even when they’re operating 100% within the law, that’s not always the case 🙁
Anyhow. Sorry, sorry; I’ll get off my soapbox now! It just drives me crazy how much most patients don’t know about the health industry — I mean, just this year, GlaxoSmithKline (a drug company of enormous influence) was fined $3 bil US after admitting to bribing doctors, along with other misconduct. I always freak out a little when I hear the phrase “but then again, she/he’s a doctor,” because doctors SHOULD have the patient’s best interests at heart… but they too-frequently don’t. 🙁
Thank you for posting this! As someone who has studied a bit (a tiny bit, really) of law and medicine, I am amazed by the amount of corruption and wrongdoing that can occur in the field, especially when it concerns the health and well being of citizens who don’t know any better! The takeaway from everything I learned really was “always look out for yourself, because no one else is going to”. I’m not saying that doctors are all out to get you and do not care at all for their patients (that is far from the truth), but in all things, you must do your research and be critical, even when relying on “expertise” that makes it seem unnecessary.
Guess I have to butt in and say too.
I am one of those people who believes fully in using products YET believes wholly in using minimal products. So unfortunately, Paris, and many other people out there, I think you girls will hate me for this belief, because due to my belief, I actually have to agree with what the doctors here, and the doctor in Paris’s case are saying.
I do not agree with doctors belittling people and I hate people who for no reason steer of course and criticise me also, but I cannot go against my belief.
I do admit that using makeup makes me have more little bumps. When I get off makeup for 2-4 weeks, my face is back to a baby-like one. I still use makeup anyway.
Nothing against using minimal products Jyoan 🙂 I know when my skin acts up, I cut back on a few tings and it usually balances itself out. Just the way it was said I guess that really got my goat. Baa! 😛
You, Darling Rae, have taken all the words out of my mouth! 😀
Hi Amanda, thanks for sharing your experience. Like Rae, I’m really glad you’re acne free now, but at the same time i am upset that she would tell you not to bother with accessible skincare but then sell you a prescription cream. I have no doubt few things out there really do what they say, especially for treatments. Yet to then push a prescription drug means lining her own pockets. A doctor i spoke to once tried the same trick on me with whitening products. I was sceptical and gave it a go. The product prescribed spoilt my skin and after months, I’m only now happier with how my skin looks after going back to my normal skincare. So I am in 2 minds about this practice. Still, that’s not what I’m really on about today so I’ll let it rest till another day 😉 I hope she wasn’t rude or unpleasant about it. It’s what I can’t stand the most.
Man. Sorry to hear you had to sit through such a terrible presentation, Paris! I always get really upset when I hear about bad docs, even if they’re not mine — if he’s that rude to an entire room (of media, no less!), I can’t help but worry about the people who are seeing him one-on-one (and might be too afraid to stand up for themselves.) 🙁
That was my thought, exactly Rae. I couldn’t imagine going to see him for a skin problem and being effectively sneered at with an “I told you so!” I later spoke to another editor who said “what on earth was he on?!” I think it sums it up lol!
I know of a dermatologist in Klang that does not listen at all. When I tried to tell him what was going on with my eczema he even had the nerve to tell me, “I know what is going on, am I the doctor or not?” >.<" Bleh.
Methinks that we know about our own bodies better than they do, particularly if we've just started seeing those doctors. So the best thing to do is to just toss the doctor away if their advice/medication does not seem to suit you and search for a second opinion.
Ish, so rude! And he expects us to pay him, yes? Some of these professionals really have a big stick up their bum 😛
I think it kind of defeats the purpose of their profession if the doctor doesn’t listen and tries to force their opinion on you, but that’s just me I guess. Consulting/Advising is one thing, being opinionated to the point of being pushy is another and there’s a fine line between those two. I would be equally irritated by that doctor too, just like you! As long as it works (And we do see results) and we want to invest the time into doing our skincare routine, I think it’s up to us yes?
My family GP here has the fortune/misfortune (Depending on how you look at it) of also being a professional cosmetic aesthetician and dermatologist, but he has never once looked at any one of us and went “You need so-and-so procedure done, bla bla bla”. He only recommends it when asked (Which we did out of curiousity), and even then, the basic minimum unless you want or are looking for more.
On a lighter note, it would be a hoot if my mother and I attended this event! She would go “See, I told you” at the doctor’s “opinions” because she (Blessed with the great skin genes) only uses cleanser, moisturiser/sunscreen and eye cream whilst I (The less fortunate one) uses multiple products 😛
As you said, it’s fine being opiniated but to be rude about it is something I can’t stand. Oh and I had an aesthetician try to convince me (without my asking and upon firat meeting) to get fillers or maybe Botox. I was like what???
I’ve been to some presentations by doctors, and most of them have the opinion that the products we purchase at the counter are overpriced, with majority of the funds going to marketing instead of product research. According to one whom I find is quite unbiased, there are other products selling at less than half the price which can be just as effective, if not more. Consumers just feel more comfortable with something that is already well known. That, I can stomach, and I can also understand.
Then, there was this nasty one who kept insulting “silly women” who buy products at thousands of dollars when they could just get a procedure done (at his clinic of course) with immediate results. Yeah…whatever… if I chose to get one done, I’d definitely go elsewhere.
I agree with Rae (flail!) that some doctors don’t have the patient’s interest at heart. I would say they prefer to take care of their wallets first. In the end, doctors or not, professionals or not, we are human after all. One doctor said animatedly, “Did I spend shit loads of money to get my doctor’s license to give out free services? I have a family to feed too”… Yay for being professional!
I can and will accept a view given with objectivity, but not if it’s to effectively point and me and laugh in my face. Really pisses me off! Oh and I’ve met those who tell me the procedure thing too. I personally prefer not to take short cuts even for immediate gratification 😉
This has happened to me! I am now actually even afraid to tell de dermatologists what I use because they get all snobby and “oh you’re wasting your money on high end products and it just makes me laugh” -.- I think there are two different types of skin doctors: the ones who actually try to understand a woman’s point of view and the one’s who think they know best and don’t care! It’s awful.
So sorry you had to experience it Raquel! I have no doubt that sometimes, what we use from the counters may not be as food as we think it is but I also believe that opinions can be offered without belittling us. The doctors in the latter category unfortuantely seem to be many 🙁
in the past i hv encountered docs who do not listen. it’s not as bad as doc who make assumptions for me and start treating me based on his assumptions. some docs are not as knowledgeable as we think they should be.
but i do agree a lot of stuff over the counter are over priced and over claimed. and they contain lots of chemicals which we can better do without. keep skin care and makeup to the basic is the way to go.
I didn’t have much comment about over the counter products since I’m not trained enough to say so, but for a doctor to treat you based on his assumptions? Wow! I have to agree, we put a lot of trust in doctors but sometimes, they too aren’t sure what they’re doing.
Ugh what a doc. It would be interesting to know exactly what the other beauty editors were thinking at that very moment when he was slagging all of their beauty routines off. Eyeballs would probably have dropped off from way too much eye-rolling 😛
There are ways to say what works for you and what doesn’t. An event like this is not for the doctor to get on his high horse and disprove every beauty myth out there. There are better ways of doing it and his way was sadly unprofessional.
The launch was about moisturizer with sun screen in it, but i think the message was lost on me lol! I’m not even sure where I put the release 😛 I did meet up with one of the editors on another day and the first thing she said was “omg! What was he on about?!” lol she didn’t see the point of his presentation either!
I think doctors are like everyone else — some are tactful and others are not.
I’ve had doctors whose personality I like, and others who I perceive as impatient or demeaning. It’s a good thing my medical plan allows me to choose my doctors and needless to say, I’ve chosen not to return to those who made me feel intimidated or upset even if they have reputations as good doctors. They just are not a good match for me and I think one needs to feel comfortable with one’s doctor in order to get the best care possible.
You’re absolutely right, Kay. If I couldn’t trust that my doctor would take care of me instead of laughing at me, then I would be definitely better off somewhere else! Thank goodness I’ve not had the need to see a skin doctor. Gynaes on the other hand… 😛
A very very well known skin doctor in the Klang Valley area told me I should stop using makeup all together. At that time I was a student/MUA which I told her. She told me to find a NEW JOB 0_o”
Goodness, talk about bring tactless! That’s not helping you solve the problem and I detest when doctors or anyone for that matter, take on that superior ‘I know more than you and so I’m right’ attitude.
This is an interesting discussion. 🙂 Actually, as a doctor myself (though not a dermatologist, I’m just starting out) I’d like to offer a slight different take on the doctor’s point of view. I agree that doctors should listen and take into account the patient’s viewpoint and should never be rude. However, I can understand why most derms would put down expensive over-the-counter creams and potions in favour for what they prescribe. Simply, it’s what we learn in our textbooks: what’s been proven in the medical community as effective treatments. Eg. Benzoyl peroxide or tretinoin for acne. We don’t find much info on say the ingredients in the expensive Estée Lauder cream you’re using or that biotherm serum. So it’s hard for doctors to endorse it. Especially when pts come specifically to find a ‘cure’. Medical textbooks never even mention serums or toners.
That said, I’m still a huge fan of beauty products and makeup. I just do my own research on what I put on my face instead of just buying into the hype and promotion the beauty companies provide.
Hi Rynx, thanks for sharing your thoughts. I’m not belittling the knowledge doctors have. There’s a reason they do 5 years of med school 🙂 I just think it could have been presented in a more acceptable manner. I have no doubt that treatment skincare or ingredients do a better job than over the counter products but to tell me it’s rubbish is, I feel a bit harsh. Particularly when at a product launch. A wee bit contradictory there lol! 😉
I’ve met a so-called skin expert who said women should not wear lipstick. If they want their lips to be red, they should punch themselves in the lip to make it all red 😛 And another dermatologist said women should not use toner, toners are akin to putting petroleum onto your skin!
Yes, I hate it when people slag the products that you use or your routine. If the product or my routine is harmful to me, then I would appreciate some warning, but if they do it and immediately push their own products on me, I will really hate it!
Uh… What?? They told you that about lipstick? I’m speechless lol!
I went to see a very famous skin doctor in the Klang Valley. She told me to stop using makeup altogether. At that time I was a student & MUA which I informed her about, she told me to FIND A NEW JOB o_0″
I’ve never met a doctor like that. *fingers crossed* But I’ve met regular people like that. And let’s just say that we weren’t friends for long. 😛
Nevermind him. I’ve been using more than 3 products for years, and don’t have a problem sticking with it. And I hope the product being launched at that event was not a serum. LOL. THAT would be real funny. 😀
I did met a doctor once who basically smirked at me when I described my symptoms. It was as though I made it all up and just there to con him. I was really annoyed and didn’t take any of the meds he prescribed. Luckily that doctor visit was paid by my company. Or else, it’d be good money wasted on lousy service.
I don’t know what’s it about doctors that get my defenses up lol! It must explain why I put off going to the doctors unless I feel like I’m dying 😛 the product launched wasn’t a serum, but it was a moisturizer with sunscreen. Oh and We’re told that spf15 is enough, anything else higher is a waste of time and money and wonder of wonders. Said product has spf15! I would never wear apf15 in our weather. Just saying 😉
when i shifted to hyderabad (in india), i met two opthamologists and one was selling me contact lenses option and other laser option and my own doc with whom i have been had already ruled out contacts coz she knew i won’t be adjusting to it and later on, she discarded the idea of laser as well. but, those two docs were irritating and i never went back to them. instead, i am frightened to go to any new doc now!!
dermas are a different breed altogether. there is hardly a good doctor when it comes to dermas. my experiences have always been not great when it comes to them. but, this is kinda funny that he can sound so condescending when he is trying to gain buyers for his product or whatever!! didn’t he bother to brush up his marketing skills???
yup, when things are said diplomatically or even objectively, people tend to consider and the option should always be left onto them…there is a very clever way of marketing a thing that the person would have no option but taking the product but one should make the person feel its their own choice. that’s not exactly everyone’s cup of tea.
I think in many cases it comes down to the bottom line of money. Im sorry to hear you and a bad experience and with eye doctors who really should know better! Sometimes these professionals forget that they aren’t the only ones in the market and I’d rather go to one less known but who will listen to me and help me with my problem, than a well known one who’d just treat me with disdain. Diplomacy always takes you further 😉
Argh, derms are the kind of doctor I trust the least. Probably because they can experiment a lot since it’s “only” skin they’re working on, and they can always blame any negative results on you. (If you break your foot, for example, the doctor has to be pretty straight-forward in fixing it.)
Lol! Favorite comment for this post! 😀
Paris, there is actually a statistic that shows doctors who get sued are good or better doctors than doctors who do not get sued. However, doctors who get sued get sued because they cannot relate to people, hence any little mistake or even non-mistake becomes blown up, irritates the patients, and gets them sued!
I guess that doctor in your case simply is one of those doctors who if working in US, will get sued.
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I haven’t come across such doctors, because guess what? I do not believe in skin doctors. LOL. Imagine me telling them that into their face yeah. If I were at that conference with you, I might just raise my hand and shoot that off for all the girls.
I do believe in doctors and respect them in general, and most of them are smarter, and do know what they are talking about.
But what I mean is, I believe in natural cure (kind of veering towards Sesame of Viva Woman’s ideas). So I would actually advise women to treat their skin from inside out (fair enough to say so?). Things like what all of you already know, drink water, eat fruits and vegetables, use less chemicals (gentler skincare products and cosmetics).
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Anyhow, I have come across such SAs, and yes, I turn around and walk straight out the shop.
How very interesting about the stats and I’m not surprised. I think it’s true in all professions not just doctors. I find some senior members of various professions tend to take this abrasive approach and it really raises my hackles, so when I encounter one who doesn’t and who is actually friendly, I tend to favour them. As for going down the natural route, I will agree with the health from inside out approach too. While natural skincare isn’t my thing, I’m all for staying healthy through eating proper foods and living a better lifestyle 🙂
Doctors, derms, anyone in the medical profession will have their own opinions, and they’re welcome to that. That’s why we sometimes go for a second consultation. I think the main issue here that you’re discussing is the attitude behind these opinions. It’s unfortunate that the doctor you listened to was rather condescending. My derm has never been dismissive or condescending, but he has his own opinions of what works and what doesn’t. I don’t always agree with him and vice versa but he’s got that good ‘bedside manner’. Props to docs who don’t make us feel dumb!
Yes, it’s the attitude that I couldn’t stand. I want to have things explained to me, not have 30 slides telling me I’m being stupid. I mean eveni I was, it works so there! Lol